Just tried to look it up, still hamstrung in the courts it appears:
The potential options the band has currently put before the court, if granted, would effectively amount to an "automatic, permanent shutdown" of the pipeline, the judge said.
"Before adopting such draconian injunctive remedies, therefore, the court must consider what alternative steps, however imperfect ... would reduce the risk of an oil spill in the near term," he wrote.
The company says its plans for a 66-kilometre detour of Line 5 around the reservation are already two years along, with 100 per cent of private landowners along the new route having already signed agreements.
As a life long Michigan resident, it astounds me how few Michiganders have any knowledge whatsoever of Line 5. While I greatly respect Doomberg and the point of view, it is clear that you have no detailed knowledge of what the Enbridge Kalamazoo river spill actually looked like. It was, and remains the worst inland oil spill in US history. I had first hand experience of the "clean up" effort and it was an utter disaster, a true vision of the worst that humans are capable of. Hell on earth does not do it justice. An oil spill in the Straits of Mackinac would be environmentally devastating.
Much more important, though, in my opinion is a specific thread I observe in these comments. There is an intense an attachment to the species that I have never understood. The sooner Natures dispatches with humans, the better, and fortunately she is doing her best.
Line 5 is only another example of the fact that the human track record is one of nothing more than net destruction and chaos. Everyone I know who is over 50 seems to "hope we make it," while everyone under 50 "knows that there is no hope" - and for me it's much easier to live when you have no interest in wether your species survives :)
Why do Central Americans keep on trying to get here? Eventually it'll be the other way around after the environmentalists kill the ability to live where the water is still fresh (the formerly glaciated states)...
I've witnessed people's opposition to pipelines around me, for environmental concerns. It made no sense. Maybe we should use less oil and gas, but as long as we use some, let's use the safest way to get it here. Maybe avoid crossing water bodies (like go around lake Huron) if possible, and use extra precautions when we do (automated safety valves, additional pipes within pipes...)
Global warming is a red herring, nature won't be hurt by it. Species will move. Plants will grow faster and recapture to CO2. Shells too. What really threatens mass extinction is the constant moving around and spreading of species. That leads to just one ecosystem per climatic zone, a huge reduction. The Geat Lakes are far more threatened by invasive species than by oil.
As to the reduction of CO2: Just cut government and regulation. Most of what we produce is wasted that way. That would also solve poverty and inequality.
It might be possible but it's a terrible idea. If they're so keen on making energy prohibitively expensive they might as well just tax the bejebus out of it.
I love that "97% of Scientists believe in climate change" propaganda. Real scientists believe nothing. Belief is religion. They have theories that are supported by observation, measurement and experiment. From that they reach conclusions. Those conclusions must change if any data or results no longer support the theory.
Scientists believe that the world can be understood, although that can't be understood (Einstein). We all believe that there is objective good and bad, obviously, since we use these words and argue about it (and disagree).
What you can say is that science debates are not settled by majority opinion but by facts.
Which makes science the exact opposite of politics - not religion.
Nevermind the fact that "consensus" has mostly been a detriment to scientific progress, you should read where that statistic came from. It was from an analysis of the abstract of a number of papers on climate change and whether their thesis was "believe" or "don't believe". How many scientist are writing "don't believe" papers these days?
Anti hydrocarbon greenie weenies are beyond stupidly delusional.
Green New Deal is just a sick joke believed and pushed by ignorant children.
Windmills and solar panels are pushed by foolish government subsidies, and when the wind don't blow and sun don't shine lights out.
Old bumper sticker in Texas: "The hell with them, let them freeze to death in the dark while starving."
Massive electricity required to run all the electric cars will come from where, and be distributed and readily available from how much capital for installation of all the copper and other metals required???
Another comment, is just that how much political capital does the political left think it has? It currently has fire responders on strike, policies that are reinforcing strikes in ag manufacturing parts which could easily lead to food issues, and now a strong possibility of people going cold by being unable to heat their homes.
I just don't see any of this ending well. So far these power games seem to all be shown to either be empty or kittens cowering before sleeping tigers.
How many people in the UP would convert to wood burning stoves? I mean, compared to the expense of the alternative, I suspect they'd be cheaper, and they're less subject to supply chains....
My Grandfather lived in the Northern Part of the LP near Cadillac during the last 20 years of his life and heated his home and cooked his food on a wood burning stove all year. And as you're probably aware... Trees are abundant in that neck of the woods. :-)
Exactly. And it's something no one can take from you and is easy to deal with as inflation goes up, as well as being a source of extra income if you have extra wood.
I mean, heck, my pepper mentality ordered a barrel conversion kit the January before the coof hit while it was still in China. I'm down more southern, but if my power went out long term and I didn't have abilities to keep powering the gennie, I had a wife about to give birth to twins that needed heat.
Even talking about this on a national scale will start seeing reactions where people don't mess around with keeping their families warm at winter. They know the cost of cold, and will send smoke signals of one nature or another in response to this urgent call on line five
Climate change, bore beetles, forest fires, etc. can take it all away. The major problem with wood is the enormous amount of time it takes to prepare it for use in sufficient quantity, the general health required to do so is beyond many, and finally wood burning is a hazardous business compared to burning gas in many ways.
Wood has been around for thousands of years, we've been burning it for thousands of years, we've burned it in many different types of building materials for thousands of years, and we've been able to keep ourselves alive in crazy cold climates that whole time.
Are there elements of it outside of our control? Yes.
But those are still MUCH more under our control, slower, and more predictable than some politician that doesn't know what they're talking about deciding to listen to some whim, some mob, or some scientist that says that starving peasants dying in the cold because they can't afford heat is an acceptable cost of fighting climate change or saving the economy by inflating prices rather than letting companies go bankrupt that should.
And, again, how much time does it take to lay the pipe for gas? To make the pipe? What do you do if a pipe starts leaking in winter when there's 10 feet of snow? Or the company that pipes it in has a leak and goes down for a week on emergency repairs?
There are costs and risks in everything. Wood is a more base energy, with more base risks. Its thus much more dependable, just as safe I would argue (though with more maintenance and if you don't do that, then yes, dangerous), and more labor intensive every year for the end user.
Good general points, but the people affected by the pipe line are not in a position to recreate their society to fit with in any reasonable time scale. Even getting thousands of jr to quit his/her job in the city to come chop wood for pop isn't going to be easy. But good luck with your idea.
I know heating a home in N California all winter takes a lot of wood.. I can’t imagine the size of the woodshed you’d need to keep a house warm when it’s -20 out.
Houses in those environments are built to different codes, with different materials, use different woods, and have wood heating down to a science. They're better insulated, with better thermal values, and the snow itself acts as an additional wind break and insulation.
Yes, even with all that it still takes a lot of wood. You start stocking up wood in July in northern climates. But it's doable.
It's just a note how the push for green energy has created a rush to coal. Well, if they shut the pipe down, I suspect a rush to wood is in store
I see a lot of whining on twitter about right wing talking points. Just making it really clear lest there be any QAnon types hanging out in this comment section, if you touch the chicken in any ham handed attempts on Whitmer, FOFA.
You know this chicken means business when he can camp his ass out in her office without a mask .
Yo, Doom...You're killing it! The inability of people to understand and apply the laws of physical nature as you have concisely pointed out will lead to quite a few harrowing experience to those living in situations that are close to energy critical. Energy is life.
I feel fairly confident we can count on the Biden administration to pick the absolute worst choice possible and run with it. That seems to be their modus operandi.
A year plus later... whatever happened to Line 5?
Just tried to look it up, still hamstrung in the courts it appears:
The potential options the band has currently put before the court, if granted, would effectively amount to an "automatic, permanent shutdown" of the pipeline, the judge said.
"Before adopting such draconian injunctive remedies, therefore, the court must consider what alternative steps, however imperfect ... would reduce the risk of an oil spill in the near term," he wrote.
The company says its plans for a 66-kilometre detour of Line 5 around the reservation are already two years along, with 100 per cent of private landowners along the new route having already signed agreements.
https://www.ctvnews.ca/business/line-5-shutdown-draconian-both-sides-must-consider-imperfect-alternatives-judge-1.6172333
As a life long Michigan resident, it astounds me how few Michiganders have any knowledge whatsoever of Line 5. While I greatly respect Doomberg and the point of view, it is clear that you have no detailed knowledge of what the Enbridge Kalamazoo river spill actually looked like. It was, and remains the worst inland oil spill in US history. I had first hand experience of the "clean up" effort and it was an utter disaster, a true vision of the worst that humans are capable of. Hell on earth does not do it justice. An oil spill in the Straits of Mackinac would be environmentally devastating.
Much more important, though, in my opinion is a specific thread I observe in these comments. There is an intense an attachment to the species that I have never understood. The sooner Natures dispatches with humans, the better, and fortunately she is doing her best.
Line 5 is only another example of the fact that the human track record is one of nothing more than net destruction and chaos. Everyone I know who is over 50 seems to "hope we make it," while everyone under 50 "knows that there is no hope" - and for me it's much easier to live when you have no interest in wether your species survives :)
Why do Central Americans keep on trying to get here? Eventually it'll be the other way around after the environmentalists kill the ability to live where the water is still fresh (the formerly glaciated states)...
I've witnessed people's opposition to pipelines around me, for environmental concerns. It made no sense. Maybe we should use less oil and gas, but as long as we use some, let's use the safest way to get it here. Maybe avoid crossing water bodies (like go around lake Huron) if possible, and use extra precautions when we do (automated safety valves, additional pipes within pipes...)
Global warming is a red herring, nature won't be hurt by it. Species will move. Plants will grow faster and recapture to CO2. Shells too. What really threatens mass extinction is the constant moving around and spreading of species. That leads to just one ecosystem per climatic zone, a huge reduction. The Geat Lakes are far more threatened by invasive species than by oil.
As to the reduction of CO2: Just cut government and regulation. Most of what we produce is wasted that way. That would also solve poverty and inequality.
Nice hypothesis, have you done research to back it up?
A quibble with the essay.
Do you really think truck and rail can move 500,000 b/d of petroleum from Western Canada to Detroit?
I don't. Line 5 cannot be replaced by truck and rail.
It might be possible but it's a terrible idea. If they're so keen on making energy prohibitively expensive they might as well just tax the bejebus out of it.
The Collapse of the USA & the Rule of Law?
See the photos to see who all the miscreants are and working together.
https://www.armstrongeconomics.com/international-news/politics/the-collapse-of-the-usa-the-rule-of-law/
I love that "97% of Scientists believe in climate change" propaganda. Real scientists believe nothing. Belief is religion. They have theories that are supported by observation, measurement and experiment. From that they reach conclusions. Those conclusions must change if any data or results no longer support the theory.
Religion is inevitable because of incompleteness.
Scientists believe that the world can be understood, although that can't be understood (Einstein). We all believe that there is objective good and bad, obviously, since we use these words and argue about it (and disagree).
What you can say is that science debates are not settled by majority opinion but by facts.
Which makes science the exact opposite of politics - not religion.
Nevermind the fact that "consensus" has mostly been a detriment to scientific progress, you should read where that statistic came from. It was from an analysis of the abstract of a number of papers on climate change and whether their thesis was "believe" or "don't believe". How many scientist are writing "don't believe" papers these days?
Anti hydrocarbon greenie weenies are beyond stupidly delusional.
Green New Deal is just a sick joke believed and pushed by ignorant children.
Windmills and solar panels are pushed by foolish government subsidies, and when the wind don't blow and sun don't shine lights out.
Old bumper sticker in Texas: "The hell with them, let them freeze to death in the dark while starving."
Massive electricity required to run all the electric cars will come from where, and be distributed and readily available from how much capital for installation of all the copper and other metals required???
"The hell with them, let them freeze to death in the dark while starving." Got a picture of that bumper sticker?
You may want to get on the auto dial list for this guys great work.
https://realinvestmentadvice.com/inflation-in-irrational-exuberance/
Sorry, no. It was a long long time ago.
If this winter is more severe than normal there is going to be some serious stress in some parts of the country.
A UPS truck pases by my home few times a week. On it it reads... Runs on Propane, a clean energy Propane !!! What the hell ?
Another comment, is just that how much political capital does the political left think it has? It currently has fire responders on strike, policies that are reinforcing strikes in ag manufacturing parts which could easily lead to food issues, and now a strong possibility of people going cold by being unable to heat their homes.
I just don't see any of this ending well. So far these power games seem to all be shown to either be empty or kittens cowering before sleeping tigers.
How many people in the UP would convert to wood burning stoves? I mean, compared to the expense of the alternative, I suspect they'd be cheaper, and they're less subject to supply chains....
I doubt environmentalists like THAT alternative.
they will ban them next. don't laugh , they can and have in some jurisdictions
A pal lives in Manchester UK. Heating with good high BTU low ash COAL!!!
My Grandfather lived in the Northern Part of the LP near Cadillac during the last 20 years of his life and heated his home and cooked his food on a wood burning stove all year. And as you're probably aware... Trees are abundant in that neck of the woods. :-)
Exactly. And it's something no one can take from you and is easy to deal with as inflation goes up, as well as being a source of extra income if you have extra wood.
I mean, heck, my pepper mentality ordered a barrel conversion kit the January before the coof hit while it was still in China. I'm down more southern, but if my power went out long term and I didn't have abilities to keep powering the gennie, I had a wife about to give birth to twins that needed heat.
Even talking about this on a national scale will start seeing reactions where people don't mess around with keeping their families warm at winter. They know the cost of cold, and will send smoke signals of one nature or another in response to this urgent call on line five
Climate change, bore beetles, forest fires, etc. can take it all away. The major problem with wood is the enormous amount of time it takes to prepare it for use in sufficient quantity, the general health required to do so is beyond many, and finally wood burning is a hazardous business compared to burning gas in many ways.
Wood has been around for thousands of years, we've been burning it for thousands of years, we've burned it in many different types of building materials for thousands of years, and we've been able to keep ourselves alive in crazy cold climates that whole time.
Are there elements of it outside of our control? Yes.
But those are still MUCH more under our control, slower, and more predictable than some politician that doesn't know what they're talking about deciding to listen to some whim, some mob, or some scientist that says that starving peasants dying in the cold because they can't afford heat is an acceptable cost of fighting climate change or saving the economy by inflating prices rather than letting companies go bankrupt that should.
And, again, how much time does it take to lay the pipe for gas? To make the pipe? What do you do if a pipe starts leaking in winter when there's 10 feet of snow? Or the company that pipes it in has a leak and goes down for a week on emergency repairs?
There are costs and risks in everything. Wood is a more base energy, with more base risks. Its thus much more dependable, just as safe I would argue (though with more maintenance and if you don't do that, then yes, dangerous), and more labor intensive every year for the end user.
Good general points, but the people affected by the pipe line are not in a position to recreate their society to fit with in any reasonable time scale. Even getting thousands of jr to quit his/her job in the city to come chop wood for pop isn't going to be easy. But good luck with your idea.
You obviously don't know what you're talking about. Fire wood prep is not a full time job, AND can be outsourced, OR can be mechanized.
I know heating a home in N California all winter takes a lot of wood.. I can’t imagine the size of the woodshed you’d need to keep a house warm when it’s -20 out.
Houses in those environments are built to different codes, with different materials, use different woods, and have wood heating down to a science. They're better insulated, with better thermal values, and the snow itself acts as an additional wind break and insulation.
Yes, even with all that it still takes a lot of wood. You start stocking up wood in July in northern climates. But it's doable.
It's just a note how the push for green energy has created a rush to coal. Well, if they shut the pipe down, I suspect a rush to wood is in store
Check out Doomberg on Rebel Capitalist! https://open.spotify.com/episode/6tbdgpNXHdlrTNNX7CrOno?si=Zp6elTOdQ36gYUc1fJkBfQ&context=spotify%3Acollection%3Apodcasts%3Aepisodes
I see a lot of whining on twitter about right wing talking points. Just making it really clear lest there be any QAnon types hanging out in this comment section, if you touch the chicken in any ham handed attempts on Whitmer, FOFA.
You know this chicken means business when he can camp his ass out in her office without a mask .
Great Topic, Doomberg!
Not to mention jet fuel supply.
(from Enbridge PDF: https://www.enbridge.com/~/media/Enb/Documents/Factsheets/FS_Without_Line5_econ_impact.pdf)
Yo, Doom...You're killing it! The inability of people to understand and apply the laws of physical nature as you have concisely pointed out will lead to quite a few harrowing experience to those living in situations that are close to energy critical. Energy is life.
I feel fairly confident we can count on the Biden administration to pick the absolute worst choice possible and run with it. That seems to be their modus operandi.