“On State Street, that great street, I just want to say… They do things that they never Do on Broadway” – Frank Sinatra This is not a piece about Covid-19, vaccines, or vaccine mandates. It is a piece about power. At issue is whether authorities in the United States have the power to mandate that certain citizens take the Covid-19 vaccines. The answer, quite obviously, depends on which authorities are seeking that power and which citizens are resisting it.
The vaccine mandates for airlines have been successful. Once United, American, Delta all mandated vaccines, vast majority of employees became vaccinated with very few hold outs. They realized the industry acted together to protect the safety of travelers. The government already has established laws for over the past half-century requiring vaccines to access government services including schools. People are free not to take the vaccine, however their employment is typically at-will. The Supreme Court continues to not hear vaccine mandate cases because the law is settled on this. This is unfortunate news for those who feel they have to make a principled stand, but they are on the wrong side of interpreting US constitution and case law.
My how time adds perspective to comments like Dr.'s. As of a couple days ago it looks like the Supremes will likely have to hear the OSHA vaccine mandate case now that the federal appeals court has upheld its stay of the mandate for larger business. What say ye now, Dr?
With that FB announcement was a picture of Lightfoot without a mask, indoors, at a game. It has never had anything to do with health. It has to do with power and leverage, and smart union people understand that with their numbers, they have a kind of leverage the mayor doesn't.
We don't teach leverage in schools .. regular schools anyway. They teach it at the Private Boarding schools, the schools where the people who tell Lightfoot what to do ... Groton, Kent, Hotchkiss, Exeter.....
In Australia, large companies are attempting not to weaponize this issue but educate and encourage. If you don't want to be vaccinated after this, testing will just become a part of your life.......next.
I grew up in Chicago or so long ago. I always knew, treat the cops with respect, they treat you the same way. I’m on the side of the cops for this one — Lightfoot is a disaster With everything she does. This instance is no different.
The "retirement credentials" does not mean police pensions.
Retirement credentials refers to certain rights that retired law enforcement officers can have, mostly to do with carrying a firearm where civilians, even those with concealed carry permits, are not allowed. The city can decline to issue those credentials, as they are threatening in this instance. It might sound trivial, but it's something that officers really want to have.
This is one chapter of the history of the police union vs Chicago city mayors . Chicago police union is most powerful organization in Chicago they fold all the cards . Historically no mayor would stand up the police union .
I don't hear anyone protesting against getting their kids vaccinated for polio, diphtheria or whooping cough. What's the big deal? The Mayo clinic describes whooping cough as "A highly contagious respiratory tract infection that is easily preventable by vaccine." Sound familiar??
I'm not against the vaccine itself. I've taken it and it gave me no side effects. I'm very, very strongly against forcing the vaccine on anyone and discriminating against people who are not vaccinated.
This has gone too far. It's about time that pro-vaccination people wake up and notice that this is eroding trust not only in the covid vaccine but all vaccines.
This is about principles. And this is the hill I'm prepared to die on. So when they want to give me the third shot in the future, I'm not going to take it before these people change the way they operate and start using persuasion instead of force.
This is about the COVID gene therapy jab. This is not a vaccination. To compare the Whooping cough vax to the Covid jab is like comparing apples to oranges. I am not anti-vax...I have all my shots. But this is not what you think it is. That's the big deal.
The Covid vaccine is actually safer than the protein-based vaccines. A small strand of RNA is clean and has very little untoward antigenic effects, unlike the older standard vaccines.
These are doctors mind you...not trolls or busybodies.
I am not going to argue with you as for or against the vax. We are all entitled to our opinions. I would not presume to know more than you, etc. However, I should not have to become a 2nd class citizen because I choose not to get the jab. There are plenty of folks that die and are hospitalized with the jab. Folks with the jab can get COVID and can give it to others. So, if the jab does not do what you think it does, why mandate it?
The argument in the referenced statement is that a doctor has a responsibility to his/her individual patient, and I won't argue with that. Without going into my personal background, I'll state that I've had three decades of high level conversations with individuals regarding risk and medical safety of therapies and surgery. I get it. For the record, I don't know that I'd necessarily advocate for the Covid vaccine for everyone, it's an individual decision. I'll also note that no named "doctors" signed the statement above. The issue in Chicago is public health, which is MUCH different that the doctor-patient relationship. The same discussion is in process for companies with public-facing employees. How much responsibility does an airline, a hospital, a city have to ensure effort is being made to reduce risk to customers and citizens? A requirement of a worker does not make them a "second class citizen", it's just a determination that they cannot engage potentially vulnerable customers or stakeholders in that capacity. Nobody's "citizenship" is at stake; nobody is forced; nobody is going to jail. This might backfire on Mayor Lightfoot or the the CEOs of hospitals and other companies; that's a decent discussion that will play out. As far as safety of MRNA vaccines, first of all, the VAERS database is of limited use. The raw data is impossible to interpret. Controlled studies, however small, have shown safety of MRNA vaccines in line or better than protein-based vaccines.
There is some Cognitive Dissonance here...we have you telling me the NEJM (not exactly a trusted name in science) is saying vax are safe whereas we have 100's of doctors saying they are not safe.
I am confused as to how you could say "nobody is forced." We have thousands of people that are forced to quit their jobs because they are being forced to take a jab that they do not want to take.
Bottom line ... the jab does NOT work.
If one gets the jab, they can get COVID, they can be hospitalized, they can die from COVID and they can transmit COVID to others. These are all facts. So...those that have not taken the jab also can get COVID, they can be hospitalized, they can die from COVID and they can transmit COVID to others. Don't you not see the inconsistency? Why is the jab being mandated if it does not work? No difference from those that are not jabbed. Why is natural immunity not in consideration? It is better than being jabbed?
I find the whole 'safety' argument to be BS...logically speaking...there is no compelling scientific or logical reason to get jabbed. Yet it is being pushed on the public and, of course, the drug companies are raking in millions of dollars. Is this not the EXACT definition of regulatory capture?
Again, why is there a mandate if there is no compelling scientific reason?
The New England Journal of Medicine is quite literally one of the most trusted journals in medicine. Instead of making snap judgements based off random internet resources, go ask your primary care doctor if he trusts the NEJM. You fundamentally do not understand what you're talking about on any level, respectfully.
Read @Reason. The way to reform of law enforcement is to bust the unions. Lightfoot is no Richard Daley, BUT if the choice is between being vaccinated and losing your job, I say don't let the door hit your ass on the way out. Cops are worse than Mafia, and I grew up there. Omerta is a way of life. Saint Ronnie fired every PATCO employee and banned them for life. No airplanes fell from the sky. Get real cops there who "Protect and Serve" not "Grift and hassle."
You miss the point. The point is no one has a right to force you to take something you don't want. Sure cops can be jerks but they have self preservation just like the rest of us. At least they have a union to advocate for them. I have no one and my congresscritter is nowhere to be found.
Chicago is already incredibly violent, see https://heyjackass.com/ - if you think everything will be swell losing 40 or 50% of your cops overnight I'm not sure what to tell you. I'm well aware of the argument of Reason, and I mostly agree with it. But this isn't a circumstance where the city has much hope of winning.
No it ain't swell at all but the corrupt cops and their corrupt unions need to be cleaned out and if this is what it takes, then so be it. Of course, I haven't lived there for 47 years, and crime is pretty bad, but there's a point where society says NO; the right to your freedom to swing your fist ends at my nose. I may be prejudiced because I've been both mugged (9 stitches in my upper lip), and falsely arrested by a C U Next Tuesday cop and a truculent b!tch prosecutor who swallowed the whole cloth fantasies of a troubled 9 year old. Little pr!@k. If I was a bread turck driver and didn't have $125k to spend on lawyers, consultants, bail, etc. I'd probably be dead today. The f@ck!ng state attorney didn't even press charges, so they can all bugger off. She want to work for Jefferson Beauregard Sessions III. I hope she gets caught up on the investigation going on about leak finding...
The vaccine mandates for airlines have been successful. Once United, American, Delta all mandated vaccines, vast majority of employees became vaccinated with very few hold outs. They realized the industry acted together to protect the safety of travelers. The government already has established laws for over the past half-century requiring vaccines to access government services including schools. People are free not to take the vaccine, however their employment is typically at-will. The Supreme Court continues to not hear vaccine mandate cases because the law is settled on this. This is unfortunate news for those who feel they have to make a principled stand, but they are on the wrong side of interpreting US constitution and case law.
My how time adds perspective to comments like Dr.'s. As of a couple days ago it looks like the Supremes will likely have to hear the OSHA vaccine mandate case now that the federal appeals court has upheld its stay of the mandate for larger business. What say ye now, Dr?
With that FB announcement was a picture of Lightfoot without a mask, indoors, at a game. It has never had anything to do with health. It has to do with power and leverage, and smart union people understand that with their numbers, they have a kind of leverage the mayor doesn't.
We don't teach leverage in schools .. regular schools anyway. They teach it at the Private Boarding schools, the schools where the people who tell Lightfoot what to do ... Groton, Kent, Hotchkiss, Exeter.....
LL is a disgrace.
In Australia, large companies are attempting not to weaponize this issue but educate and encourage. If you don't want to be vaccinated after this, testing will just become a part of your life.......next.
I grew up in Chicago or so long ago. I always knew, treat the cops with respect, they treat you the same way. I’m on the side of the cops for this one — Lightfoot is a disaster With everything she does. This instance is no different.
The "retirement credentials" does not mean police pensions.
Retirement credentials refers to certain rights that retired law enforcement officers can have, mostly to do with carrying a firearm where civilians, even those with concealed carry permits, are not allowed. The city can decline to issue those credentials, as they are threatening in this instance. It might sound trivial, but it's something that officers really want to have.
This is one chapter of the history of the police union vs Chicago city mayors . Chicago police union is most powerful organization in Chicago they fold all the cards . Historically no mayor would stand up the police union .
I don't hear anyone protesting against getting their kids vaccinated for polio, diphtheria or whooping cough. What's the big deal? The Mayo clinic describes whooping cough as "A highly contagious respiratory tract infection that is easily preventable by vaccine." Sound familiar??
You're a good little serf.
I'm not against the vaccine itself. I've taken it and it gave me no side effects. I'm very, very strongly against forcing the vaccine on anyone and discriminating against people who are not vaccinated.
This has gone too far. It's about time that pro-vaccination people wake up and notice that this is eroding trust not only in the covid vaccine but all vaccines.
This is about principles. And this is the hill I'm prepared to die on. So when they want to give me the third shot in the future, I'm not going to take it before these people change the way they operate and start using persuasion instead of force.
This is about the COVID gene therapy jab. This is not a vaccination. To compare the Whooping cough vax to the Covid jab is like comparing apples to oranges. I am not anti-vax...I have all my shots. But this is not what you think it is. That's the big deal.
The Covid vaccine is actually safer than the protein-based vaccines. A small strand of RNA is clean and has very little untoward antigenic effects, unlike the older standard vaccines.
Can you provide me a source?
Check this out...
https://doctors4covidethics.org/wp-content/uploads/2021/09/Vaccine-immune-interactions-and-booster-shots_Sep-2021.pdf
These are doctors mind you...not trolls or busybodies.
I am not going to argue with you as for or against the vax. We are all entitled to our opinions. I would not presume to know more than you, etc. However, I should not have to become a 2nd class citizen because I choose not to get the jab. There are plenty of folks that die and are hospitalized with the jab. Folks with the jab can get COVID and can give it to others. So, if the jab does not do what you think it does, why mandate it?
The argument in the referenced statement is that a doctor has a responsibility to his/her individual patient, and I won't argue with that. Without going into my personal background, I'll state that I've had three decades of high level conversations with individuals regarding risk and medical safety of therapies and surgery. I get it. For the record, I don't know that I'd necessarily advocate for the Covid vaccine for everyone, it's an individual decision. I'll also note that no named "doctors" signed the statement above. The issue in Chicago is public health, which is MUCH different that the doctor-patient relationship. The same discussion is in process for companies with public-facing employees. How much responsibility does an airline, a hospital, a city have to ensure effort is being made to reduce risk to customers and citizens? A requirement of a worker does not make them a "second class citizen", it's just a determination that they cannot engage potentially vulnerable customers or stakeholders in that capacity. Nobody's "citizenship" is at stake; nobody is forced; nobody is going to jail. This might backfire on Mayor Lightfoot or the the CEOs of hospitals and other companies; that's a decent discussion that will play out. As far as safety of MRNA vaccines, first of all, the VAERS database is of limited use. The raw data is impossible to interpret. Controlled studies, however small, have shown safety of MRNA vaccines in line or better than protein-based vaccines.
https://www.nejm.org/doi/full/10.1056/nejmoa2035389 and also with older patients:
https://www.nejm.org/doi/full/10.1056/NEJMoa2028436
If you were to go to the About section you will see a list of doctors...lots of them looks like over 100.
https://doctors4covidethics.org/doctors-for-covid-ethics-signatories/
There is some Cognitive Dissonance here...we have you telling me the NEJM (not exactly a trusted name in science) is saying vax are safe whereas we have 100's of doctors saying they are not safe.
I am confused as to how you could say "nobody is forced." We have thousands of people that are forced to quit their jobs because they are being forced to take a jab that they do not want to take.
Bottom line ... the jab does NOT work.
If one gets the jab, they can get COVID, they can be hospitalized, they can die from COVID and they can transmit COVID to others. These are all facts. So...those that have not taken the jab also can get COVID, they can be hospitalized, they can die from COVID and they can transmit COVID to others. Don't you not see the inconsistency? Why is the jab being mandated if it does not work? No difference from those that are not jabbed. Why is natural immunity not in consideration? It is better than being jabbed?
I find the whole 'safety' argument to be BS...logically speaking...there is no compelling scientific or logical reason to get jabbed. Yet it is being pushed on the public and, of course, the drug companies are raking in millions of dollars. Is this not the EXACT definition of regulatory capture?
Again, why is there a mandate if there is no compelling scientific reason?
The New England Journal of Medicine is quite literally one of the most trusted journals in medicine. Instead of making snap judgements based off random internet resources, go ask your primary care doctor if he trusts the NEJM. You fundamentally do not understand what you're talking about on any level, respectfully.
Read @Reason. The way to reform of law enforcement is to bust the unions. Lightfoot is no Richard Daley, BUT if the choice is between being vaccinated and losing your job, I say don't let the door hit your ass on the way out. Cops are worse than Mafia, and I grew up there. Omerta is a way of life. Saint Ronnie fired every PATCO employee and banned them for life. No airplanes fell from the sky. Get real cops there who "Protect and Serve" not "Grift and hassle."
Make them but their own liability insurance above a certain amount. We ALL were vaccinated against a number of diseases. How do you think Polio vanished? Smallpox? Here's a list of MAGA friendly state of FLA required vaccinations for kids entering school: http://www.floridahealth.gov/programs-and-services/immunization/children-and-adolescents/school-immunization-requirements/index.html
Why not donut eating jerks?
You miss the point. The point is no one has a right to force you to take something you don't want. Sure cops can be jerks but they have self preservation just like the rest of us. At least they have a union to advocate for them. I have no one and my congresscritter is nowhere to be found.
Chicago is already incredibly violent, see https://heyjackass.com/ - if you think everything will be swell losing 40 or 50% of your cops overnight I'm not sure what to tell you. I'm well aware of the argument of Reason, and I mostly agree with it. But this isn't a circumstance where the city has much hope of winning.
No it ain't swell at all but the corrupt cops and their corrupt unions need to be cleaned out and if this is what it takes, then so be it. Of course, I haven't lived there for 47 years, and crime is pretty bad, but there's a point where society says NO; the right to your freedom to swing your fist ends at my nose. I may be prejudiced because I've been both mugged (9 stitches in my upper lip), and falsely arrested by a C U Next Tuesday cop and a truculent b!tch prosecutor who swallowed the whole cloth fantasies of a troubled 9 year old. Little pr!@k. If I was a bread turck driver and didn't have $125k to spend on lawyers, consultants, bail, etc. I'd probably be dead today. The f@ck!ng state attorney didn't even press charges, so they can all bugger off. She want to work for Jefferson Beauregard Sessions III. I hope she gets caught up on the investigation going on about leak finding...
Those early retirements will do wonders for the Police Pension Plan's <25% funding ratio.
Ive got my money on the union for some strange reason...